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	<title>Comments on: Overtime Pay</title>
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		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://lianza.org/blog/2003/06/28/overtime-pay/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianza.org/blog/?p=83#comment-148</guid>
		<description>In the past year, I&#039;ve seen and heard and had to make use of the &quot;let the market take care of itself&quot; argument more than ever.  I think back to where the minimum wage and labor laws and policies developed, and it seems that most of these were FDR&#039;s and the government&#039;s response to the Great Depression, no?  And the Industrial Revolution, with children and adults working all hours in the mills.  I guess my question to you is, because I certainly don&#039;t have the answer, is it ever ok for the government to step in, especially in case of where the market fails?  Furthermore, while economy is based on the habits of citizens, does the economy or the market encompass all of the things necessary for individuals to make appropriate choices - certainly taking a job is going to affect your income, in addition to your family, or your health.  Is it fair to assume that these are all things that are one-dimensional enough to assess their value in monetary terms?  Because to me, that&#039;s all the &quot;market&quot; or &quot;economy&quot; is - money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the past year, I&#8217;ve seen and heard and had to make use of the &#8220;let the market take care of itself&#8221; argument more than ever.  I think back to where the minimum wage and labor laws and policies developed, and it seems that most of these were FDR&#8217;s and the government&#8217;s response to the Great Depression, no?  And the Industrial Revolution, with children and adults working all hours in the mills.  I guess my question to you is, because I certainly don&#8217;t have the answer, is it ever ok for the government to step in, especially in case of where the market fails?  Furthermore, while economy is based on the habits of citizens, does the economy or the market encompass all of the things necessary for individuals to make appropriate choices &#8211; certainly taking a job is going to affect your income, in addition to your family, or your health.  Is it fair to assume that these are all things that are one-dimensional enough to assess their value in monetary terms?  Because to me, that&#8217;s all the &#8220;market&#8221; or &#8220;economy&#8221; is &#8211; money.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://lianza.org/blog/2003/06/28/overtime-pay/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianza.org/blog/?p=83#comment-149</guid>
		<description>There are certainly shortcomings to a 100% free market and I think most would argue (myself included) that there are times government should step in.

  Monopolies are one example, although there really aren&#039;t many of them and today we are *way* to quick to call a company one (ex. Microsoft).  Utilities/infrastructure-based services are another example.  If you need a telephone pole on my property or wires all over my town to provide your service, I would expect that the government has some hand in that.  Neighborhood effects are another example - if what you&#039;re doing effects me in a negative (or positive) way and there&#039;s no reasonable way to pay me back (or charge me) then the government should intervene.  Example: polluting my neighborhood.  There are a few other times when I would expect government intervention into the market, but not nearly as many as we have today.

The central goal of the government in the economy, in my opinion, is to allow private individuals to enter agreements freely.  We provide a framework for that (contract laws, courts system, etc) and let people interact as they please.  Children will *always* be an exception.  Children cannot make decisions, so I have no problem making laws to restrict their behavior, alter their wages, or provide a more stringent framework.

Adults however, should have the freedom to make decisions for themselves.  The jobs that pay the most should be the jobs that are in shortest supply - the jobs our society needs to have filled the most and are willing to pay for.  A lot of jobs (Lawyers/Doctors) have pay that is *artificially* high because government restrictions on who can and cannot practice law and medicine keep supply low.  The other side of the spectrum are the cotton farmers who are being subsidized heavily just to stay in business.  The net result there is not only is that money out of the taxpayers pocket, but it also cripples markets in other countries where they can no longer compete.

So, by and large I take the stance that the government should just butt out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are certainly shortcomings to a 100% free market and I think most would argue (myself included) that there are times government should step in.</p>
<p>  Monopolies are one example, although there really aren&#8217;t many of them and today we are *way* to quick to call a company one (ex. Microsoft).  Utilities/infrastructure-based services are another example.  If you need a telephone pole on my property or wires all over my town to provide your service, I would expect that the government has some hand in that.  Neighborhood effects are another example &#8211; if what you&#8217;re doing effects me in a negative (or positive) way and there&#8217;s no reasonable way to pay me back (or charge me) then the government should intervene.  Example: polluting my neighborhood.  There are a few other times when I would expect government intervention into the market, but not nearly as many as we have today.</p>
<p>The central goal of the government in the economy, in my opinion, is to allow private individuals to enter agreements freely.  We provide a framework for that (contract laws, courts system, etc) and let people interact as they please.  Children will *always* be an exception.  Children cannot make decisions, so I have no problem making laws to restrict their behavior, alter their wages, or provide a more stringent framework.</p>
<p>Adults however, should have the freedom to make decisions for themselves.  The jobs that pay the most should be the jobs that are in shortest supply &#8211; the jobs our society needs to have filled the most and are willing to pay for.  A lot of jobs (Lawyers/Doctors) have pay that is *artificially* high because government restrictions on who can and cannot practice law and medicine keep supply low.  The other side of the spectrum are the cotton farmers who are being subsidized heavily just to stay in business.  The net result there is not only is that money out of the taxpayers pocket, but it also cripples markets in other countries where they can no longer compete.</p>
<p>So, by and large I take the stance that the government should just butt out.</p>
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		<title>By: callahan</title>
		<link>http://lianza.org/blog/2003/06/28/overtime-pay/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>callahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T, your position awhile ago (1905-1937), was endorsed by the Supreme Court. In Lochner v. New York, <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&#038;court=US&#038;vol=198&#038;invol=45," rel="nofollow">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&#038;court=US&#038;vol=198&#038;invol=45,</a> the Court held that the US Constitution includes, &#8220;[t]he general right to make a contract in relation to his business is part of the liberty of the individual protected by the 14th Amendment of the Federal Constitution.&#8221;</p>
<p>This decision led to the court-packing crisis of FDR&#8217;s administration, <a href="http://www.hpol.org/fdr/chat/." rel="nofollow">http://www.hpol.org/fdr/chat/.</a> Many people believe that this proposal of FDR&#8217;s&#8211;to add up to six more justices to the Supreme Court, who would obviously favor the overruling of Lochner and implicitly allow his social policies to go forward (which had been continuously struck down by the Supreme Court)&#8211;lead to the &#8220;switch in time that saved nine,&#8221; <a href="http://www.msu.edu/~pipc/courtpacking.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.msu.edu/~pipc/courtpacking.pdf</a>, meaning that Justice Robert&#8217;s decided to start holding economic legislation to be constitutional.  </p>
<p>Today, all economic legislation (maximum hours/minimum wage, etc.) need only be rational in order for the Supreme Court to find them constitutional. Almost nothing gets struck down on this form of deferential review. The Supreme Court ruled in West Coast Hotel v. Parrish, <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&#038;court=us&#038;vol=300&#038;invol=379," rel="nofollow">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&#038;court=us&#038;vol=300&#038;invol=379,</a> that “the constitution does not speak of freedom of contract.” In West Coast Hotel, the Court upheld minimum wage hours in Washington, and with that, Lochner was dead. </p>
<p>I don’t think that there’s any chance of the current Supreme Court striking down economic legislation, so the debate thus moves to Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://lianza.org/blog/2003/06/28/overtime-pay/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianza.org/blog/?p=83#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info, Coon.  As usual, I wish for the days of old...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info, Coon.  As usual, I wish for the days of old&#8230;</p>
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